7 replies to this topic

[somos]

Sorry about this thread not being here sooner, just been lazy to transfer this from JDMST to here.

The JDMST thread also contains information about the differences between a floating calliper and fixed callipers and can be found here:

http://forum.jdmstyletuning.com/showthread...8-piston-brakes

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Bear in mind I had already 0.24 co-eff pads (QFM A1RM) and larger rotors with slotted discs (DBA items). But braking was still unconvincing for the power and weight of the car. Perhaps i was going overboard with the upgrade, but with all the recent crazy drivers on the road i felt safer with the upgrade and i knew i eventually wanted to track the car....

First off... the famous Supra brakes:

They do provide approx. 1600 braking horsepower. They are relatively speaking a bolt on job. They are almost 2 times more effective than the 2 piston floating job at the moment (about 900 braking horsepower for the 2 pot dual piston floating caliper (found in the IS200, IS300, JZX100)). But there are reasons why i didn't go with these:



First off piston design is just 4 pistons of the same size clamping down. Which doesn't account for the way the rotor's surface at the leading edge of the caliper is cooler than the rotor's surface at the trailing edge of the caliper. So in a track situation and multiple use scenario it would still experience lots of brake fade.

And the size of the caliper means the surface area would be similar to the existing setup. Which wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all.

And thirdly it costs about $1600 (as someone recently told me, you can buy from Toyota NZ)

And here is list of popular cars and brake kits and their braking force:


Braking performance comparison:

Vehicle

Braking horsepower

Ferrari F1

7000+

Porsche Twin Turbo GT1

2060

Brembo/AP 6 pot 385mm discs

2040

Mercedes Brabus V12

1950

Supra TT 4 pots with Mintex grooved discs

1760

Wilwood Rallystop 4pot 355mm discs

1750

Brembo/AP 6 pot 355mm discs

1680

Maclaren F1

1670

Supra TT 4 pots

1665

Wilwood Rallystop 4pot 320mm discs

1640

Brembo/AP 6 pot 320mm discs

1590


Porsche 996 C2/C4

1590

Ferrari 456GT

1480

Supra / Soarer TT 2 pots

1010

Lamborghini Muira (1966)

780

Ford Mondeo 2Ltr Saloon

700

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K-sport say that the braking force is about the same as the Supra TT 4 pots. So it comes down to the design of the calliper.


Then i saw a KSport ad in (High Performance Imports) HPI Magazine. So decided it was worth a try and see if they had bolt on brakes for the JZX100. Which they did!





They are cheaper than Endless by about $1.5k and Willwood and AP etc. by about 3k.

The 8 piston design had larger pistons towards the trailing edge of the caliper and smaller ones at the leading edge. The surface area of pads has increased about 2 fold. The rotor is the same size (330mm), but its now a 2 piece and slotted.

Bit concerned about workmanship at A&B Motorsport though... Wheels have not been aligned and are wobbling. There is also a small clicking noise at low speeds and a clunking noise when car goes over a high bump. So will be calling them on Monday to see if they can rectify the problem.

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EDIT:

Its been about 2 months since i got them installed and i have sent them back to Frank to fix the weird clicking noise (which it turns out was a braided line clicking against the subframe, don't ask me how). So Frank replaced the braided line with something shorter. But clunking still present. Also when i picked up the car there was air in the system (super spongy brakes), from a split hose! But at least its fixed to a point, its annoying that he still hasn't fixed the clunking. A&B avoid.

The wobbling was due to no wheel balancing and no wheel alignment after (my bad, but a quick trip to Jimmy at Thornleigh JAX fixed that)

Went to a trackday at Marulan, lots of cornering. No brake fade, lots of braking force. BUT need 2 pots at the back and brake bias adjuster to balance out the braking force. Fronts lock up on heavy braking (then ABS kicks in).

[Geoff]

Great post, Just wondering are the Ksport brakes ADR approved?
Do they have dust boots over the pistons?

This is an issue if you are planning to use these on the road and be legal?

[TRD JZX100]

Nice review thanks for sharing the info.

Just one thing I want to point out... because I'm a big fan and advocate of the Supra 4pots.

Here are the brake force you posted for the various setups.
Supra TT 4 pots with Mintex grooved discs - 1760
Brembo/AP 6 pot 355mm discs - 1680
Supra TT 4 pots - 1665
Brembo/AP 6 pot 320mm discs - 1590

The way I see it, purely based on brake force, the Supra TT brake option is up there on top. It even out performs the Brembo setup which has much larger rotors and 2 more pistons. In addition, if you do the Supra TT conversion properly and do the rear callipers and rotors also, you won't have issues with ABS and needing to install brake bias adjustment, which in turn adds extra complexity and cost to the system.

If you are worried about brake fade, the answer is effective ducting and cooling. There's guys in the states who track relatively big HP Supras (up to and around 600HP) who still use the stock factory TT Brakes and rotors because they don't fail like some of the lesser after market options. One of the only things they do is make sure that their brakes are ducted and have fresh air flow from the front of the car to cool them off. And, these guys are out gunning/driving GT2 Porches, Vipers etc. around the track.

That's my $0.02 worth.

[discern]

Interesting info, thanks!

Can anyone also confirm that TRD brakes are the same as Supra TT brakes? Just painted red...

[TRD JZX100]

I believe TRD brakes are a monblock design and the stock TT brakes are not. Essentially, the TRD callipers are stiffer and thus less (if any) flex. The TRD brakes are more similar to Celsior 4 pot brakes than Supra TT brakes IIRC

[kaliber]

So the way to go would be the supra brakes?

[whiterolla]

TRD JZX100, on Nov 9 2010, 07:19 PM, said:

I believe TRD brakes are a monblock design and the stock TT brakes are not. Essentially, the TRD callipers are stiffer and thus less (if any) flex. The TRD brakes are more similar to Celsior 4 pot brakes than Supra TT brakes IIRC

These are the TRD jzx90/jzx100 optioned calipers are identical to supra TT's just stickered TRD (not monoblock)


TRD Blacks are monoblock. (never was a jzx90/jzx100 option)

[whiterolla]

TRD JZX100, on Nov 9 2010, 06:48 PM, said:

Nice review thanks for sharing the info.

Just one thing I want to point out... because I'm a big fan and advocate of the Supra 4pots.

Here are the brake force you posted for the various setups.
Supra TT 4 pots with Mintex grooved discs - 1760
Brembo/AP 6 pot 355mm discs - 1680
Supra TT 4 pots - 1665
Brembo/AP 6 pot 320mm discs - 1590

The way I see it, purely based on brake force, the Supra TT brake option is up there on top. It even out performs the Brembo setup which has much larger rotors and 2 more pistons. In addition, if you do the Supra TT conversion properly and do the rear callipers and rotors also, you won't have issues with ABS and needing to install brake bias adjustment, which in turn adds extra complexity and cost to the system.

If you are worried about brake fade, the answer is effective ducting and cooling. There's guys in the states who track relatively big HP Supras (up to and around 600HP) who still use the stock factory TT Brakes and rotors because they don't fail like some of the lesser after market options. One of the only things they do is make sure that their brakes are ducted and have fresh air flow from the front of the car to cool them off. And, these guys are out gunning/driving GT2 Porches, Vipers etc. around the track.

That's my $0.02 worth.

One thing this comparsion doesnt hightlight is weight, if for instance if the brembo's are monoblock desgin, there is alot of weight saving, which in turn = unsprung weight read more of effects of unsprung weight here