37 replies to this topic

[TRD JZX100]

I recently started to look into this stuff a bit more seeing as it's very slowly becoming more accessible and also because I plan to build an E85 friendly fuel system for my Supra. That is, I'll still be able to run normal PULP but have the capability of running E85 also (needs ~30% more fuel) while still making similar power to PULP

Anyway, here's some interesting E85 info I've found so far. I skipped all the Green propaganda BS and just stuck to the bits of interest to us...

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E85 Facts and Myths
Myth: Ethanol makes your engine run hotter.
Fact: There's a reason many high-powered racing engines run on pure alcohol. It combusts at a lower temperature, keeping the engine cooler. Ethanol, a form of alcohol, in your fuel does the same for your engine.

Myth: Ethanol is bad for fuel injectors.
Fact: Olefins in gasoline cause deposits that can foul injectors. By comparison, ethanol burns 100 percent and leaves no residue, so it cannot contribute to the formation of deposits. Fact is, ethanol actually keeps fuel injectors cleaner and improves performance. What's more, ethanol does not increase corrosion, and it will not harm seals or valves.

Myth: Ethanol clogs fuel lines.
Fact: Ethanol actually keeps your fuel system cleaner than regular unleaded gasoline. In dirty fuel systems, ethanol loosens contaminants and residues and they can get caught in your fuel filter. In older cars, especially those manufactured before 1975, replacing the filter will solve the problem. And if you continue to use ethanol-blended gasoline, your filter will remain cleaner for improved engine performance.

Myth: Ethanol isn't safe for older vehicles.
Fact: Many older cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline, with the lead providing necessary octane for performance. However, even dramatic changes in gasoline formulation over the past few years have not affected older engine performance. Ethanol, a natural, renewable additive, raises octane levels by three points and works well in older engines.

Myth: My car will have less power if I use ethanol blended fuels
Fact: Most cars will actually produce more power using an ethanol blend. Ethanol has a much higher octane rating than petrol. At higher ethanol blends (E85) there is a significant increase in power. For example the SAAB bio power cars produce 124Kw of power using petrol and 147KW using E85 (85% ethanol, 15% Petrol).

I mean, we already upgrade our fuel pumps and injectors/fuel rails so why not go the next step and replace the fuel lines and fittings with E85 friendly gear? From my understanding, that's basically all you need to run E85 in our cars. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So, has anyone actually run E85 in their car?

[5hu7o]

very intresting read! no wonder V-racing had ethanol in it and was 100 octane.

[Wanjayzee]

Apparently ive got the fuel system to support E85 - Walbro 500hp pump and PE 800cc injectors.

Didnt know there were special lines and all for E85 but i guess the only thing holding anyone back on running E85 in Vic is the availability of the fuel.

I'd love to run on E85 but not sure on what else i need to complete the setup...

Fase

[Dave-GT-JZX100]

One of the race cars at work has recently been modified to run E85, bigger pump and injectors, and was tuned the other week on it.
Engine in this particular car was just a stock 4age silvertop 20v, with aftermarket ecu. the difference on E85 to PULP was extraordinary. They were run back to back on dynapack dyno, and made 15-20% more power overall, but the amzing thing was the difference in torque down low. With the two dyno graphs next to eachother it looked like it had a turbo conversion, as the torque curve on E85 almost looked like the thing was on boost

the only problem is here in SA apparently the servo's selling it have gone bankrupt, and/or the tanks/pumps they are using to sell it dont meeet statndars to suit ethanol based fuels, so the likelyhood of it being readily available like gloom at this stage. Mind you it is still apparently available in 44 gallon drums from somewhere, but realistically E85 for now should probably be saved for race cars only, or insane 'weekend only' cars.

Dave

[TRD JZX100]

Very good info Dave, sounds like I'll be giving E85 a shot in the Chaser soonish

There's supposedly an Enffue E85 round the corner from me on Salisbury Highway. I reckon, next plug and oil change I might go down and fill up on some ,after resetting the ECU of course.


Wanjayzee: Don't quote me on this but, Yes, you could probably run E85 in your system as it is now. However, supposedly with some older cars (and even some newer ones too) the type of rubber used in the fuel lines as well as the fittings and fuel pump material/components doesn't fair very well with the ethanol. I believe, to be on the safe side, you're supposed to use PTFE type fuel hose. http://www.paragonperformance.com/Biodiese...uel%20Hose.html

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Driving Habits: If you drive your show/race car just once our twice a year you may want to stay with gas because E85 works like a sponge grabbing all the water it can from the air. So driving some on a weekly basis would be good. If you use E85 keep it moving don't store it! If you need to park your car for long terms you should fill your tank with gas and stabill. This will provide you with some protection from rust and fuel system problems.

Engine: E85 likes high compression to make big power but it works fine on low compression engines to. E85 will bring more water into your oil, but with proper maintenance this should not cause problems.

Fuel System: Your current system might be just fine. Your fuel tank should be clean without rust and the vibration rubber sections in your fuel line should be replaced with new fuel hose. Your pump needs to pump about 30% more fuel and work with E85. We are using Holley mechanical and electric pumps without problems. Good fuel filter is always a must and braided fuel line is good for looks and safety.

[Dave-GT-JZX100]

TRD JZX100, on Apr 11 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

Very good info Dave, sounds like I'll be giving E85 a shot in the Chaser soonish

There's supposedly an Enffue E85 round the corner from me on Salisbury Highway. I reckon, next plug and oil change I might go down and fill up on some ,after resetting the ECU of course.


Wanjayzee: Don't quote me on this but, Yes, you could probably run E85 in your system as it is now. However, supposedly with some older cars (and even some newer ones too) the type of rubber used in the fuel lines as well as the fittings and fuel pump material/components doesn't fair very well with the ethanol. I believe, to be on the safe side, you're supposed to use PTFE type fuel hose. http://www.paragonperformance.com/Biodiese...uel%20Hose.html

you CANT use E85 on a car with a std ECU. It will ping like crazy as the std ECU wont be able to counter-act the difference the new fuel will make. Even if the std ECU runs at 100% duty cycle with std injectors, it will still be way too lean. you would need probably ~800cc injectors and a full new tune.

i'm not too sure whether that servo at mawson lakes is still selling it or not, but guys down south mentioned that the pumps had been pad locked. apparently the pumps were just std ones that contained soft metal fittings that react with the ethanol or something, so they were shut down.

[TRD JZX100]

Oh... I was under the impression you could on some cars. Aren't most (performance) Jap cars tuned from factory to run on their 100 octane fuel? Didn't they have to detune the WRXs back in the day to run on our shite fuel?

Also, found a site which has a small list of factory cars which CAN run E85 and the JZA80 Supra was one, while MKIIIs etc. can't.

I just figured that apart from possible incompatibilities with the physical fuel system itself the ECU should be able to handle the higher octane. I understand the additional fuel flow requirements may be a little too much (30% extra fuel is required for the same power IIRC) for the stock system but while not at WOT I figure it should be fine. Even with a little bit of WOT it still might be OK

As for the E85 servo, it's kind of on the way to my place but I've never had a chance to stop off there. I'll have to just pop by and see what's up...

[Dave-GT-JZX100]

the problem isnt really to do with the octane of the fuel, more so its to do with they way its burnt/combusted. the chemical make-up of the fuel itself contains much more oxygen than normal PULP, so while burning the fuel, its kind of like adding extra oxygen (nearly like boost) in a way to the mixture, hence the reason it needs so much more of it to burn at a safe rate that wont ping/detonate.

my 2c.... i hope its right

[Tats]

I've heard a few big HP V8s in this area will be tuned to run purely on E85 soon, pretty keen to see the results.